New Ayvarith Blog

[TJ]

New Ayvarith Blog:

http://ayvarith.blogspot.com/

[Klaus Dieckmann]

Hello TJ,

your website is a strange mix of a science fiction film with an artificial
language based on arabic.

Let me consider the verb system of your language Ayvarith.

Singular:
qamar-t (I said)
qamar-ta (you said)
qamar (her, she said)

Plural:
qamar-t-im (we said)
qamar-t-am (you said)
qamar-im (they said)

The arabic original is:

e.g. to write
katab-tu, katab-ta, kataba
katab-na, katab-tum, katab-u

The endings -ta (arab. anta = you) resemble to indoeuropean "tu" (2.Person),
"-na" sounds like the first person *m, compare latin laud-eba-m or
laud-eba-mus.

Your verbal system is not logical. The tempus marker t is omited in the
first person. As I suppose is the Plural marker -im, derived form
Hebrew -im.

I think a conlang should be stringent in all forms, systematical without
logical gaps. This aim is important. I realised it in the Lingua Eurana. You
will see:

Personal pronouns

Singular

mu (I), tu (you), su (he, she), hu (it)

Plural

mi (we), ti (you), si (they), hi (they)

The Singular marker is -u, the plural marker is -i. Therefore the enclitical
endings of a verb are:

Singular
-m
-s
- (empty)

Plural
-mi
-ti
-i

The changing of the consonant t to s in the second person ist a normal act
in indoeuropean languages. I omitted the gender marker in the third person.

e.g.

leg-e-m (I read), leg-e-s, leg-e, leg-e-mi, leg-e-ti, leg-e-i

The copula: j => stem of to be
j-e-m (I am), j-e-s, j-e, j-e-mi, j-e-ti, j-e-i

Normally written in this way: jem, jes, je, jemi, jeti, jei.

"Je" is found in serbian language in the same meaning, Russian infinitive of
to be: jest.

The ending e is the indicator of the present tense.

leg-eba-m (I read = Past tense), leg-eba-s, leg-eba, leg-eba-mi, leg-eba-ti,
leg-eba-i

These forms are derived from Latin.

The past tense is logical integrated in the system of enclitical personal
endings. In your language these personal markers are changed in the
different tenses, a logical jump.

a-qmar (I say), ti-qmar, yi-qmar, a-qmar-im, ti-qmar-im, yi-qmar-im

The plural is well done, is regular, but the personal markers are different
from the ones in the past tense.

As a resumee: You think in the ways of the arabic grammar and you changed
only a few forms. I can't image that in the conservative arabic world
changes in the holy language of the qur'an would be accepted. And what is a
further obstacle, a mix with Hebrew grammar does not make it easier although
the two semitic language are related anf belong to the same language family.

The only chance of the realisation of a new language is Europe, which needs
a common language. The present Anglosaxon predominating language tries to
get this place, but I think, it is not apted because of several causes (the
bad orthography, the difficult pronounciation, the illogical mixed glossary
of germanic and romanic elements, the political impact of the former British
Empire and nowadays American influence with its own different culture).

So I developed the Lingua Eurana, a nice language and a bond of
communication of the future European people.

Greetings from Germany

Klaus Dieckmann

Project Lingua Eurana
http://linguaeurana.blogspot.com/2009/02/grammar-of-lingua-eurana.html
National-Europäische Partei (National-European Party)
http://linguaeurana.blogspot.com/2009/02/national-europaische-partei-nep.html

[TJ]

Post by Klaus Dieckmann
Hello TJ,
your website is a strange mix of a science fiction film with an artificial
language based on arabic.
Let me consider the verb system of your language Ayvarith.
qamar-t (I said)
qamar-ta (you said)
qamar (her, she said)
qamar-t-im (we said)
qamar-t-am (you said)
qamar-im (they said)
e.g. to write
katab-tu, katab-ta, kataba
katab-na, katab-tum, katab-u
The endings -ta (arab. anta = you) resemble to indoeuropean "tu" (2.Person),
"-na" sounds like the first person *m, compare latin laud-eba-m or
laud-eba-mus.
Your verbal system is not logical. The tempus marker t is omited in the
first person. As I suppose is the Plural marker -im, derived form
Hebrew -im.
I think a conlang should be stringent in all forms, systematical without
logical gaps. This aim is important. I realised it in the Lingua Eurana. You
Personal pronouns
Singular
mu (I), tu (you), su (he, she), hu (it)
Plural
mi (we), ti (you), si (they), hi (they)
The Singular marker is -u, the plural marker is -i. Therefore the enclitical
Singular
-m
-s
- (empty)
Plural
-mi
-ti
-i
The changing of the consonant t to s in the second person ist a normal act
in indoeuropean languages. I omitted the gender marker in the third person.
e.g.
leg-e-m (I read), leg-e-s, leg-e, leg-e-mi, leg-e-ti, leg-e-i
The copula: j => stem of to be
j-e-m (I am), j-e-s, j-e, j-e-mi, j-e-ti, j-e-i
Normally written in this way: jem, jes, je, jemi, jeti, jei.
"Je" is found in serbian language in the same meaning, Russian infinitive of
to be: jest.
The ending e is the indicator of the present tense.
leg-eba-m (I read = Past tense), leg-eba-s, leg-eba, leg-eba-mi, leg-eba-ti,
leg-eba-i
These forms are derived from Latin.
The past tense is logical integrated in the system of enclitical personal
endings. In your language these personal markers are changed in the
different tenses, a logical jump.
a-qmar (I say), ti-qmar, yi-qmar, a-qmar-im, ti-qmar-im, yi-qmar-im
The plural is well done, is regular, but the personal markers are different
from the ones in the past tense.
As a resumee: You think in the ways of the arabic grammar and you changed
only a few forms. I can't image that in the conservative arabic world
changes in the holy language of the qur'an would be accepted. And what is a
further obstacle, a mix with Hebrew grammar does not make it easier although
the two semitic language are related anf belong to the same language family.
The only chance of the realisation of a new language is Europe, which needs
a common language. The present Anglosaxon predominating language tries to
get this place, but I think, it is not apted because of several causes (the
bad orthography, the difficult pronounciation, the illogical mixed glossary
of germanic and romanic elements, the political impact of the former British
Empire and nowadays American influence with its own different culture).
So I developed the Lingua Eurana, a nice language and a bond of
communication of the future European people.
Greetings from Germany
Klaus Dieckmann
Project Lingua Euranahttp://linguaeurana.blogspot.com/2009/02/grammar-of-lingua-eurana.html
National-Europäische Partei (National-European Party)http://linguaeurana.blogspot.com/2009/02/national-europaische-partei-...

Thanks for your comments.
but some points are left to point out:

1. my conlang is created solely for fiction use and not for the
purpose of being lingua franca
2. I'm not changing Arabic or Hebrew, and the holy book has nothing to
do with it.
3. the language is based indeed on Hebrew Arabic, and Aramaic.
4. The plural of the verb is indeed derived from -im root in Hebrew
plurals but the pronounciation is different. It's short -im sound and
not long as in Hebrew.

5. My intent was not to copy the grammatical scheme of Arabic and put
it directly into my conlang, but I used a touch of it. Thus, the
"tempus marker" should not be linked to the logic of the Arabic
language.

6. If you know Arabic, you'd know already that the personal marker in
the past and present are different already, and I made a system like
that by adding A, Ti, Yi, before the "root" of the verb. The markers
of the present should not necessarily be like those used for past
tense (and it is not the situation in Arabic).

7. Most the depiction is derived from Arabic indeed, because it is my
native tongue, while I didn't gain much insight into Hebrew.

8. I don't compare my conlang with Latin, since it wasn't part of my
plan in the creation in the first place.
9. As mentioned before, the point is to give a sound similar to or
close to how Arabic and Hebrew and Aramaic would sound.

10. The structure of the verbs is based on a root of 3 letters or 4.
According to the root, systematic changes take place to give the tense
and the person.

11. In fiction, no need to remain systematic. Being systematic too
much kills the spirit of joy.


You can also visit the other conlang page:
http://www.geocities.com/bulughman/

This conlang was created while writing down a story using Ayvarith. I
didn't develop much of it.
You can also check "Zimurán" conlang, inhttp://www.omniglot.com, since
I didn't make a separate webpage for it yet. And maybe I won't.

Thanks again.
TJ

[Rick Harrison]

In article

Post by TJ
11. In fiction, no need to remain systematic. Being systematic too
much kills the spirit of joy.

Well said. A natural-seeming language will have variations and
irregularities.

Systematic languages are fun too, when you are in a systematic mood.

[TJ]

Post by Rick Harrison
In article

Post by TJ
11. In fiction, no need to remain systematic. Being systematic too
much kills the spirit of joy.

Well said. A natural-seeming language will have variations and
irregularities.
Systematic languages are fun too, when you are in a systematic mood.

I Agree

[Klaus Dieckmann]

Hello TJ,

thank you for your reply. I gessed you invented a conlang to write a
fiction. It was very interesting to read an arabic conlang. That is very
rare. Most of the conlangers only know their own language and another
romanic one and try to imitate them in different ways. That often leads to
an Esperanto clone or a imitation of English, not more.

My viewpoint is that an artificial language should have a purpose not only
to produce joy in oneself. He who invents a new language structure or
grammar - if this language is good or are a flop - and hopes to get some
applause, has limited aims. I prefer a real language which is apted to be
spoken like Esperanto, surely, better and optimized in its structure.

Lingua Eurana is a project to spread this new language in Europe. Therefore
I founded a party which goal is the unification of Europe with one language.
I invite all people to join, even they live outside Europe.

I think about the arabic language if it were possible to integrate partly
the stem system which is not so bad. At the moment I write about this
thought in my blog, but in German.

Greetings from Cologne

Klaus Dieckmann
Project Lingua Eurana

http://linguaeurana.blogspot.com/2009/02/grammar-of-lingua-eurana.html
(Short grammar in English)

[TJ]

Post by Klaus Dieckmann
Hello TJ,
thank you for your reply. I gessed you invented a conlang to write a
fiction. It was very interesting to read an arabic conlang. That is very
rare. Most of the conlangers only know their own language and another
romanic one and try to imitate them in different ways. That often leads to
an Esperanto clone or a imitation of English, not more.
My viewpoint is that an artificial language should have a purpose not only
to produce joy in oneself. He who invents a new language structure or
grammar - if this language is good or are a flop - and hopes to get some
applause, has limited aims. I prefer a real language which is apted to be
spoken like Esperanto, surely, better and optimized in its structure.
Lingua Eurana is a project to spread this new language in Europe. Therefore
I founded a party which goal is the unification of Europe with one language.
I invite all people to join, even they live outside Europe.
I think about the arabic language if it were possible to integrate partly
the stem system which is not so bad. At the moment I write about this
thought in my blog, but in German.
Greetings from Cologne
Klaus Dieckmann
Project Lingua Eurana
http://linguaeurana.blogspot.com/2009/02/grammar-of-lingua-eurana.html
(Short grammar in English)

Thanks again for your reply.

In fact, I can't say that my conlang is an Arabic conlang, but rather,
a semitic conlang with semitic sounds. And in semitic languages it is
usual to use the 3-root or 4-root system (and in hebrew it can be 5).
This is because everything and several degrees of one thing can be
produced by a root of 3 letters, specially in verb formation. I didn't
use this facility so much in my conlang in fact because I know it
would be hard for the receiver from other parts of the world. By
adding some letters to the root you can change time, severity,
contuinty and other things of the verb.

Example:

k-t-b (the root for writing)

1. katab (or kataba): he wrote
2. istaktab(a): he asked someone to write (with continuous asking)
3. kutib(a): he (it) was written
4. iktatab(a): used for registering (buying) stocks
5. kaatab(a): exchange (written) letters with someone

and so on. Some verb have the flexibility to have more options for
additional letters and changing the meaning and tense.
Usually the additional letters that can be added to a verb (or noun)
are: S-(A Hamza)-L-T-M-W-N-Y-H-A

I think to form a conlang for communications like Esperanto, the
grammar has to be lessened and simpler of course. Esperanto had its
conditions and it was created by a man who used to live in a village
of mixed culture: Russian, German, Romanian and Polish.

My conlang was sparked in the beginning, by a script, and not by a
necessity. The goal in the beginning was to form a script that I might
use to write some, let's say, secrt letters or write down my diary.
The thing developed in fact to what is it now.

The sound system and the oral tradition, as I believe, are the factors
for deciding which system to take for writing: Abjadic, Alphabet,
Abogida, Syllabic and so on. Take japanese for example. If japanese is
to be written in Arabic system or Latin, the words would be so long by
looking, but they have developed (beside the Kanji), hiragana, and
katakana scripts. Irish gaelic is another example. It was written with
semi-alphabetic system with Ogham, but later on with the arrival of
latin they adapted the new system and added some special characters to
meet their needs according to the way they see their language.

Wenn Deutsch ich bin, Ich würde meine Sprache mit Abjadic system
schreiben. Denn wörter können kleiner bekommen!

I've seen several conlangs like Esperanto and they mostly aim to unify
EU or just to make it easier to communicate between people, but I
notice that they take so so much from Latin, not in the grammar, but
in words and sounds themselves. Maybe Esperanto included some sounds
like ZH I guess?

In the story I'm writing not all languages are like semitic. There is
the Bulughman, which is turkish-like. And ZImura which is somehow,
japanese-like. Some other conlangs are there in the mind but I didn't
make any further decisions about them, but you can see them reflected
in some names in the map I've created (in another post), like
Caqobian.


Thanks again for comments.
TJ