Discussion:
any language makers still loitering here?
(too old to reply)
Rick Harrison
2010-05-08 03:36:01 UTC
Permalink
This newsgroup is sharing the fate of the telegraph and the dodo bird,
it appears. Still, there is virtually unlimited and virtually free
bandwidth for text here, available for anything related to conlangery.

Naturally most people who want to read a forum will gravitate to the
more active ones like the ZBB website and the Conlang mailing list.
Maybe this newsgroup could be used for projects that are specialized or
involve sending large numbers of messages that only a few people would
be interested in. Sort of like a less volatile, less time-pressured
alternative to IRC.
AV3
2010-05-08 14:38:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rick Harrison
This newsgroup is sharing the fate of the telegraph and the dodo bird,
it appears. Still, there is virtually unlimited and virtually free
bandwidth for text here, available for anything related to conlangery.
Naturally most people who want to read a forum will gravitate to the
more active ones like the ZBB website and the Conlang mailing list.
Maybe this newsgroup could be used for projects that are specialized or
involve sending large numbers of messages that only a few people would
be interested in. Sort of like a less volatile, less time-pressured
alternative to IRC.
I am lurking here, but, if you are the only other lurker, let's agree to
seek discussion elsewhere. There is just too much SPAM here to try to
fight it.
--
++====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====+====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====++
||Arnold VICTOR, New York City, i. e., <***@Wearthlink.net> ||
||Arnoldo VIKTORO, Nov-jorkurbo, t. e., <***@Wearthlink.net> ||
||Remove capital letters from e-mail address for correct address/ ||
|| Forigu majusklajn literojn el e-poŝta adreso por ĝusta adreso ||
++====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====+====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====++
Paul Bartlett
2010-05-09 00:52:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by AV3
Post by Rick Harrison
This newsgroup is sharing the fate of the telegraph and the dodo
bird, it appears. Still, there is virtually unlimited and virtually
free bandwidth for text here, available for anything related to
conlangery. [trim]
I am lurking here, but, if you are the only other lurker, let's agree
to seek discussion elsewhere. There is just too much SPAM here to try
to fight it.
Having been around auxlang/conIAL circles for many years, I would say
that, yes, this newsgroup -- alt.language.artificial -- has never lived
up to its potential. (In fact, I don't even know who started it or
when.) Most serious discussion takes place on the CONLANG and AUXLANG
mailing lists hosted at Brown University (USA), as well as on
specialized mailing lists or newsgroups relating to individual or
specialized topics (such as PostaMundi, Bablo, or
soc.culture.esperanto).
--
Paul Bartlett
AV3
2010-05-09 02:23:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Bartlett
Post by AV3
Post by Rick Harrison
This newsgroup is sharing the fate of the telegraph and the dodo
bird, it appears. Still, there is virtually unlimited and virtually
free bandwidth for text here, available for anything related to
conlangery. [trim]
I am lurking here, but, if you are the only other lurker, let's agree
to seek discussion elsewhere. There is just too much SPAM here to try
to fight it.
Having been around auxlang/conIAL circles for many years, I would say
that, yes, this newsgroup -- alt.language.artificial -- has never lived
up to its potential. (In fact, I don't even know who started it or
when.) Most serious discussion takes place on the CONLANG and AUXLANG
mailing lists hosted at Brown University (USA), as well as on
specialized mailing lists or newsgroups relating to individual or
specialized topics (such as PostaMundi, Bablo, or
soc.culture.esperanto).
To my knowledge there are less than a dozen lurkers, none formerly
frequent contributors. There have been no discussions between eminent
participants from Esperanto, Logbab, etc., and no presentations of new
proposals in a long time.


So I declare that I will cease lurking here a week from today, unless
serious traffic noticeably increases in the next few days. To tell the
truth, I will be leaving town for a long trip, but I won't come back
here when I return.
--
++====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====+====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====++
||Arnold VICTOR, New York City, i. e., <***@Wearthlink.net> ||
||Arnoldo VIKTORO, Nov-jorkurbo, t. e., <***@Wearthlink.net> ||
||Remove capital letters from e-mail address for correct address/ ||
|| Forigu majusklajn literojn el e-poŝta adreso por ĝusta adreso ||
++====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====+====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====++
Bob LeChevalier
2010-05-09 05:12:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by AV3
Post by Paul Bartlett
Post by AV3
Post by Rick Harrison
This newsgroup is sharing the fate of the telegraph and the dodo
bird, it appears. Still, there is virtually unlimited and virtually
free bandwidth for text here, available for anything related to
conlangery. [trim]
I am lurking here, but, if you are the only other lurker, let's agree
to seek discussion elsewhere. There is just too much SPAM here to try
to fight it.
Having been around auxlang/conIAL circles for many years, I would say
that, yes, this newsgroup -- alt.language.artificial -- has never lived
up to its potential. (In fact, I don't even know who started it or
when.) Most serious discussion takes place on the CONLANG and AUXLANG
mailing lists hosted at Brown University (USA), as well as on
specialized mailing lists or newsgroups relating to individual or
specialized topics (such as PostaMundi, Bablo, or
soc.culture.esperanto).
To my knowledge there are less than a dozen lurkers, none formerly
frequent contributors. There have been no discussions between eminent
participants from Esperanto, Logbab, etc., and no presentations of new
proposals in a long time.
I lurk, but I don't initiate threads about Lojban. Most people who
want to talk about it go to one of the Lojban lists (and there is a
alt.language.artificial.lojban, but it has only one poster of note -
though he does post *in* Lojban).

lojbab
---
Bob LeChevalier - artificial linguist; genealogist
***@lojban.org Lojban language www.lojban.org
Bob LeChevalier
2010-05-09 05:09:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Bartlett
Post by AV3
Post by Rick Harrison
This newsgroup is sharing the fate of the telegraph and the dodo
bird, it appears. Still, there is virtually unlimited and virtually
free bandwidth for text here, available for anything related to
conlangery. [trim]
I am lurking here, but, if you are the only other lurker, let's agree
to seek discussion elsewhere. There is just too much SPAM here to try
to fight it.
Having been around auxlang/conIAL circles for many years, I would say
that, yes, this newsgroup -- alt.language.artificial -- has never lived
up to its potential. (In fact, I don't even know who started it or
when.)
Rick did, IIRC. And I said that it wouldn't accomplish anything that
CONLANG and AUXLANG already were accomplishing. I was right.
Post by Paul Bartlett
Most serious discussion takes place on the CONLANG and AUXLANG
mailing lists hosted at Brown University (USA), as well as on
specialized mailing lists or newsgroups relating to individual or
specialized topics (such as PostaMundi, Bablo, or
soc.culture.esperanto).
Lojban too. And there are now multiple Lojban-related lists, which
were recently moved to Google Groups.

Another source for interaction is IRC, and the #lojban channel is
often active. I'm sure other conlangs also use this resource.

lojbab
---
Bob LeChevalier - artificial linguist; genealogist
***@lojban.org Lojban language www.lojban.org
AV3
2010-05-08 14:38:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rick Harrison
This newsgroup is sharing the fate of the telegraph and the dodo bird,
it appears. Still, there is virtually unlimited and virtually free
bandwidth for text here, available for anything related to conlangery.
Naturally most people who want to read a forum will gravitate to the
more active ones like the ZBB website and the Conlang mailing list.
Maybe this newsgroup could be used for projects that are specialized or
involve sending large numbers of messages that only a few people would
be interested in. Sort of like a less volatile, less time-pressured
alternative to IRC.
I am lurking here, but, if you are the only other lurker, let's agree to
seek discussion elsewhere. There is just too much SPAM here to try to
fight it.
--
++====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====+====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====++
||Arnold VICTOR, New York City, i. e., <***@Wearthlink.net> ||
||Arnoldo VIKTORO, Nov-jorkurbo, t. e., <***@Wearthlink.net> ||
||Remove capital letters from e-mail address for correct address/ ||
|| Forigu majusklajn literojn el e-poŝta adreso por ĝusta adreso ||
++====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====+====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====++
Prai Jei
2010-05-08 19:56:37 UTC
Permalink
Rick Harrison set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time
Post by Rick Harrison
This newsgroup is sharing the fate of the telegraph and the dodo bird,
it appears. Still, there is virtually unlimited and virtually free
bandwidth for text here, available for anything related to conlangery.
Naturally most people who want to read a forum will gravitate to the
more active ones like the ZBB website and the Conlang mailing list.
Maybe this newsgroup could be used for projects that are specialized or
involve sending large numbers of messages that only a few people would
be interested in. Sort of like a less volatile, less time-pressured
alternative to IRC.
Hudoi sil meno mushim vemat omeshegoda vul ruvashu na.

(I'm still here but I never find anything worth looking at.)
--
ξ:) Proud to be curly

Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply
David Wolff
2010-05-10 02:09:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Prai Jei
Rick Harrison set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time
Post by Rick Harrison
This newsgroup is sharing the fate of the telegraph and the dodo bird,
it appears. Still, there is virtually unlimited and virtually free
bandwidth for text here, available for anything related to conlangery.
Naturally most people who want to read a forum will gravitate to the
more active ones like the ZBB website and the Conlang mailing list.
Maybe this newsgroup could be used for projects that are specialized or
involve sending large numbers of messages that only a few people would
be interested in. Sort of like a less volatile, less time-pressured
alternative to IRC.
Hudoi sil meno mushim vemat omeshegoda vul ruvashu na.
(I'm still here but I never find anything worth looking at.)
Also lurking. The message count shows a few items a day, but somewhere
a spam filter seems to zap most of the junk for me.

Thanks --

David

(Remove "xx" to reply.)
Prai Jei
2010-05-11 17:50:47 UTC
Permalink
David Wolff set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time
Post by David Wolff
Post by Prai Jei
Hudoi sil meno mushim vemat omeshegoda vul ruvashu na.
(I'm still here but I never find anything worth looking at.)
Also lurking. The message count shows a few items a day, but somewhere
a spam filter seems to zap most of the junk for me.
Yes there's plenty of spam about, recognisable by subject lines all in
capitals and (mostly) surrounded by double asterisks.
Post by David Wolff
(Remove "xx" to reply.)
Spambots are by now intelligent enough to do that for themselves. You need
to be a bit more obscure in the instructions.
--
ξ:) Proud to be curly

Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply
hs
2010-05-09 10:23:38 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 07 May 2010 23:36:01 -0400, Rick Harrison
Post by Rick Harrison
This newsgroup is sharing the fate of the telegraph and the dodo bird,
it appears. Still, there is virtually unlimited and virtually free
bandwidth for text here, available for anything related to conlangery.
Naturally most people who want to read a forum will gravitate to the
more active ones like the ZBB website and the Conlang mailing list.
Maybe this newsgroup could be used for projects that are specialized or
involve sending large numbers of messages that only a few people would
be interested in. Sort of like a less volatile, less time-pressured
alternative to IRC.
I am still lurking, too, just for the record.
--
Hans Straub
mungojelly (la stela selckiku)
2010-05-22 01:04:08 UTC
Permalink
mi jundi

(I'm paying attention.)

.i mi du lo jbobau tavla poi la .lojbab. pu ciksi

(I'm the Lojban speaker that Bob LeChevalier was explaining about.)

.i mi finti lo mi ji'a runbau

(I also invent my own artificial languages.)

.i mu'a mi finti lo bangu poi na'e se bacru zi'e poi ku'i se batkyci'a
po'o

(For example I'm inventing a language which isn't uttered, but only
typewritten.)

.i ku'i lo se go'i cu cifnu pe'a po'o

(But that's only a baby.)

.i .a'o ro do runbau se gasnu vrici snada

(Hopefully you're all succeeding in your various conlanging
activities.)

.i mi'e la stela selckiku mu'o

(Signed, Stela Selckiku. Now, over to you.)
Paul Bartlett
2010-05-22 19:08:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by mungojelly (la stela selckiku)
.i mu'a mi finti lo bangu poi na'e se bacru zi'e poi ku'i se
batkyci'a po'o
(For example I'm inventing a language which isn't uttered, but only
typewritten.)
Interesting. I have had a similar idea, especially with limiting the
morphemes, such as in aUI (an extreme case) or Sona (a less extreme
case). Sadly, I have never gotten around to it in the press of other
matters. Do you have any ideas you are willing to share? Thanks.
--
Paul Bartlett
mungojelly (la stela selckiku)
2010-05-25 05:45:47 UTC
Permalink
Interesting.  I have had a similar idea, especially with limiting the
morphemes, such as in aUI (an extreme case) or Sona (a less extreme
case).  Sadly, I have never gotten around to it in the press of other
matters.  Do you have any ideas you are willing to share?  Thanks.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by "limiting the morphemes", in this
case. But sure, I'll post here a few of the ideas I've had about
typewritten language. Since it's not really on-topic for this thread,
and this place could use more real threads anyway, I'll start another
thread called "typewritten conlangs" or something. :)

<3,
la stela selckiku
aka
mungojelly
aka
Veret'he
aka
bret-ram
aka
brett
Paul Bartlett
2010-05-25 22:26:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by mungojelly (la stela selckiku)
Interesting.  I have had a similar idea, especially with limiting the
morphemes, such as in aUI (an extreme case) or Sona (a less extreme
case).  Sadly, I have never gotten around to it in the press of other
matters.  Do you have any ideas you are willing to share?  Thanks.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by "limiting the morphemes", in this
case.
Well, I gave two explicit examples, aUI and Sona, both of which are (or
are attempted to be) languages with limited morphemes. aUI has
precisely 42, and Sona has 375 words/radicals. These are sometimes
called oligosynthetic languages. How successful they have been is, of
course, another matter.
Post by mungojelly (la stela selckiku)
But sure, I'll post here a few of the ideas I've had about
typewritten language. Since it's not really on-topic for this thread,
and this place could use more real threads anyway, I'll start another
thread called "typewritten conlangs" or something. :)
I'll be looking for it. :)
--
Paul Bartlett
mungojelly (la stela selckiku)
2010-05-26 08:54:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Bartlett
Well, I gave two explicit examples, aUI and Sona, both of which are (or
are attempted to be) languages with limited morphemes.  aUI has
precisely 42, and Sona has 375 words/radicals.  These are sometimes
called oligosynthetic languages.  How successful they have been is, of
course, another matter.
Oh, yes, sorry, now I see what you mean. I tried to look at aUI and
Sona a bit, but I'm not really familiar with either, though I do think
I've read a tiny bit about Sona years ago. There's discussion in
conlanging circles all the time though about oligosynthesis in
general, if usually just to put it down as impossible/impractical, so
I'm familiar with the idea.

I had thought of giving fundamental meanings to the letters in my
typewritten language. I don't know whether it's possible to make an
oligosynthetic language that actually follows a simple set of rules in
constructing meanings, or rather I don't know how useful it's possible
to make such a language. But my language is less rigid than that,
anyway. Even if every word comes from a few basic roots that combine,
there's also lots of transformations that words can go through, and
there's idiosyncratic meanings for compounds and phrases. So, plenty
of wiggle room to allow a full range of expression!

My project is also more suited to starting from a limited set of
meanings, because I'm not at all trying to cover the ordinary semantic
territory. Lots of things that are easy to say in most languages will
be much harder in mine. In general, it's easy to say things about
text, about the internet, about consciously forming social and
collaborative situations, and about groups and especially pairs of
people, while it's less easy to talk about physical objects and
situations, and introspective or individual experiences and actions.
So even if what people say about oligosynthesis is true, I'm not that
scared of it: I'm not trying to make every possible meaning magically
emerge from a small set of primitives, I'm just trying to chart a
particular strange area of meaning from a small set of primitives,
which should work just right.

I guess people say negative stuff about oligosynthesis because people
try to use it to make auxlangs. It seems to me like an especially
terrible way to make an auxlang. What you're going to get from
oligosynthesis is something crunchy and difficult and possibly logical
but definitely obscure. But I think that's appropriate for a sort of
artlang that appeals to me, hmm how to put it, languages that emerge
from a particular specific place, a specific method and internal
order, and the experience of learning them or speaking them has a
strong character that flows from that. I wouldn't use it to make
something that's supposed to be general or open or versatile.

I'm not going to chain myself to oligosynthesis as a technique. If I
find it convenient to coin a bunch of long roots, then I will. But I
am going to at least start out with a tiny set of roots, adding rules
to make compounds and transformations from them, and see how far
they'll take me.

<3,
la stela selckiku
aka
mungojelly
aka
bret-ram
aka
veret'he
aka
brett
aka
j

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